Small Group Discussions

To prepare for the small group discussions, I first went over the text of Beowulf. Fortunately I had read the text before, s o it was fairly familiar to me.  I then went over the 10 questions that we had been given in class.  I then chose four questions that I felt that were interesting, and that I could write on and explore in great detail. 

Having chosen the four questions, I took each individual question and looked within the text of Beowulf and found textual evidence that dealt with the question. I underlined, and put color coordinated tabs for each section so that I could turn back to and find the textual evidence with ease. 

After having found the evidence to answer each question, I based an opinion, and based an answer according to the text.

Three things that I have learned from this exercise

1.       One thing that I have learned within the text is the idea of comitatus.  Before reading Beowulf, I have had never heard of comitatus.  I find it an interesting topic, and discussion.  I learned that comitatus, is really a promise and a pact between a leader and warrior, to help each other out.  I liked how it was shown in Beowulf.

2.       I also learned that it really does help to prepare for class, in which there is a discussion like we had.  I found it beneficial to be prepared, and to be able to participate in the discussion, I think if we were not being graded on it, it would have been even enjoyable, because we were actually getting some well thought out discussions that made you think.

3.       The third thing that I learned from this exercise is that it helps to be organized as well.  I think that being organized made presenting the information that I had had more simpler, and easier to understand.

I thought that there were many good points brought up, and overall it was a good discussion.  I think I also learned from others ideas as well, and made me think deeper about points that were brought up.  I think that I learned probably about the same as a regular lecture class.  I like lectures, and learn a lot from them, and I like the discussion and learned a lot from it as well.

Comitatus

A question I thought that was particularly thought provoking, that came from the Questions hand out for our small group discussion was the one that dealt with comitatus. 

The question is “Do the warriors have an obligation to Beowulf under the bonds of comitatus even though Beowulf himself tells them that this is his fight, and his fight alone?”  Obviously the answer can go both ways. I think it is important to look at the text and see how Beowulf said it was his fight.

Lines 2533 “It is not your way, nor proper for any man except me alone that he should match his strength against this monster.”  When Beowulf says that it is not “proper” for any man to fight other than himself, he leaves the door still wide open for comitatus.  Comitatus is not about what’s proper or not, it is an agreement.  In the back of our book it says:

“Comitatus: Arrangement whereby young warriors attached themselves to the leader of a group and defended him in return for his economic and legal protection.”

Comitatus was a strong bond between the warriors and leaders.  I think that the bond was stronger than what was proper or not. 

Another point that I would like to point out is that part of Comitatus was the idea that the warriors would protect their king for riches and protection.  Beowulf had already protected, and gave them riches, when It came down to their part of the deal, the warriors, turned and fled when it appeared that their king needed protection, and was about to fall in battle

At first I was thinking that the warriors were relieved of their responsibility to Beowulf, because he said he alone would fight, but after looking further into the book and writing about it I have convinced myself that the warriors did not hold up their end of the deal of comitatus.

Response To Tammy's Blog

In response to Tammy’s blog, I keyed in on the last paragraph of her blog.  She said “maybe Beowulf was more of a cautionary tale.  The people who were hearing the tale would know what a good warrior, wife and king is and know that the monsters were the opposite.”

I like this quote and find it very interesting.  I like the idea of Beowulf being a “cautionary tale”.  The way I think of Beowulf being a cautionary tale is that maybe the story was orally passed down, to influence the population.  I think the story took shape similar to a role model.  It may have influenced younger people in their youth to aspire to become warriors, to strive to be like Beowulf. 

Also I think the tale would in fact, influence others to “know what a good warrior, wife and king is.”  Once again similar to a role model, something you can look to and aspire to be.

The supernatural but mortal Beowulf

In the epic poem Beowulf, Beowulf is portrayed as a man who is stronger than normal men, yet is still mortal.  He is portrayed as a man with supernatural strength, in a world of supernatural creatures.

  I think it is interesting that in Beowulf the protagonist is faced with supernatural opposition, and is able to come off conquer.  In the battle with Grendel, when Grendel seizes Beowulf he is surprised and fearful because of the strength of Beowulf, in lines 750 it reads “as soon as the shepherd of sins discovered that he had never met on middle earth, in any region of the world, another man with a greater handgrip, in his heart he was afraid for his life.”

 Grendel being a supernatural creature could eat and destroy pretty much anything it wanted to, until it battled with Beowulf.  I find it interesting in this story how one man could be so much stronger and powerful than any other man. 

This idea of one man having supernatural strength and yet still mortal reminds me of Gilgamesh, and his friend Enkidu.  It seemed that these two had supernatural strength, beyond most humans. 

I do not know much about ancient literature, but I think it would be interesting to learn more about it, and see if this was a common idea in works of literature that were written in the past, almost a theme that reflected the ideas and wishes of people at the time. 

It would seem to me that if one wrote about a mortal with super natural strength, maybe that was a desire for the ancient time.  With so much wars and everything centered around ones strength it  would not surprise me to find out that most ancient literature did indeed focus on this topic of mortal, supernatural strength.

essay pitch

For my essay, I’m thinking about comparing and contrasting the biblical Eve and the Sophocles Antigone.  I have gone online and pulled a couple of sources from Ebsco that dive into both characters.   Here are my two citations so far…

 Reed, Valerie. "BRINGING ANTIGONE HOME?." Comparative Literature Studies 45.3 (2008): 316-340. Academic Search Premier. EBSCO. Web. 10 Oct. 2011.

Harrison, Nonna Verna. "EVE, THE MOTHER OF GOD, AND OTHER WOMEN." Ecumenical Review 60.1/2 (2008): 71-81. Academic Search Premier. EBSCO. Web. 10 Oct. 2011.

 I think that the citations will provide valuable information on both characters.  I think what I will focus on in the essay is the characters itself and how they are portrayed, and their roles with in the text.  For example both play a major role in the text and both could be considered main characters.  I think I will focus on how they are perceived today as well.  Eve may be considered as a trickster for example.

I also think that I will focus on the similarities and the differences of the characters.  For example I think that a similarity of Antigone and Eve would be is that their acts and decisions that they made not only affected themselves but everyone else surrounding them in the story. 

I difference between Eve and Antigone is the way that they are portrayed today.  Eve has a negative feeling about her, and sometimes thought of the cause of human misery.  Where Antigone can be considered as a tragic hero.

 I think I will use many examples from the text to help build my essay.  I’m not too sure what my main argument is going to be.  I’m hoping that the comparing is an argument with in itself, because I am interpreting the text, and in interpreting you naturally can have arguments.

Catullus

After having read some of the Roman Catullus’s poems, one stood out to me.  Found on page 798-799 titled “Poor damned Catullus here’s no time for nonsense.”  After having to read it a few times to make understanding out of it, I find it a very interesting poem. 

It starts out, as I interpret it that Catullus is analyzing an event that took place in his life.  In the first few lines he is calling himself to see things clearly, and for how they really are (sometimes hard to do when women are involved in your life). 

In the next few lines specifically in 6-7 we find an important part of the poem’s story.  This is the cause of Catullus’s poem, he has had sex with a girl, attached to the girl, but “now she’s no longer yielding.”  Pretty much as I see it, she has dumped him.

In the next few lines we find Catullus trying to motivate himself, and to build himself up, trying to let her go.  Also in lines 14+ the point of view may switch.  At first it appears that Catullus is addressing himself, and then he switches to anger and addresses the female.  In the words “you whore! Where’s your man to cling to…” (I find it interesting that when a women dumps a man, even back in the Roman Era, it comes natural to call here a whore.)

The last line of the poem, I believe we get some major Irony going.  It says “But always, your Catullus will be as firm as rock is” Catullus is trying to fool the girl, and possibly himself with this statement.  From the text we can conclude that Catullus is not firm as a rock, that he is quite the opposite, he is unstable and is trying to cope with an emotional break up.

I think Catullus captured some emotions that go along with a break up. I  find it interesting that poetry written so long ago can apply in our lives today.

Tragedy

The Aristotelian elements of a classical tragedy, according to the following website http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/Tragedy.htm  is “plot, characters, verbal expression, thought, visual adornment, and song composition.”  In class, we went over the idea of tragedy, and what makes up a tragedy.  It seems like Antigone fits into the term tragedy, because of the content of the play.  The overall plot is set up to be tragic.  The characters posses certain characteristics that promotes the tragic events.  For example both Creon and Antigone both are stubborn and would not give. Their verbal expression and thought process all leads to the tragic ending as well. 

It is debated that Antigone could have two different tragic heroes, namely Antigone and Creon.  In my own understanding of a tragic hero, the hero is not a perfect being.  The hero will have his or her own flaws that will lead them down to their downfall.  The downfall will be tragic, and normally the downfall is brought about by pride, or some other personal trait.

I think the true tragic hero of the play would be Creon.  I think this way, because, he is the one who has to live with all the death that he thinks and accepts that he has caused.  In the play Creon, is definitely a major role, and it is his pride that brings the downfall.  Creon at the beginning was not necessarily a bad person, and did not have all bad motives. He wanted to make a point, and have the city be more important than family.  Later on in the play, he let his pride go to far, leading to the tragic events.  Creon let the pride go so far, as to at first, not listen to his trusted prophet.  Pride was inevitably his downfall, and this is why Creon is the Tragic Hero.